Juno Sucks Ass
For anyone who has been following my problems with Juno Online, you may have noticed that Juno is pretty fucked up. This is true. Though I'm no longer interested in pursuing this issue of my $9.95 they owe me, nor have any of the e-mails I have sent out been responded to in any way by Juno, I thought as a public service I would post an account of what had happened and how you can avoid having it happen to you. Of course, the first step would be to not have anything to do with Juno. Then again, that's not always possible.
Here are the relevant message relating to the whole Juno issue, with editor commentary inserted as needed.
** Sometime in January of 2ØØ1, I attempted to sign up for Juno Online.
** During the Sign Up process, before I was online but after I'd given my credit card number, the installation software crashed.
** Not being online, or having an account completely set up, I decided to scrap the idea of using Juno and instead got free internet service with my landlord.
** On 3/15/Ø1 I received in the mail my monthly bank statement, where I noticed I'd been charged $9.95 for service I never got, nor completely signed up for.
** On 3/24/Ø1 I called Juno's “Customer Service Line” (888-839-5866) to complain about the charge and to cancel my “service”.
** Having gotten the service canceled, the representative informed me that I could not have the $9.95 charge reversed. In order to do that, I had to send an e-mail to president@juno.com and explain my case, after which Juno will write back and address the problem.
** At 4:18 P.M. (same day) I sent an e-mail to president@juno.com explaining my problem:
From: Austin Rich (austin@rackmØunt.org)
To:
president@juno.com
Subject:
There Appears To Be A Mistake...
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2ØØ1
16:18:56
Organization: A.C.R.O.N.Y.M., Inc.
Greetings.
My name is Austin Rich. While I was perusing my latest bank statement, I noticed that there was a charge to my account that I had not anticipated. Apparently, I was charged for Juno Online Services even though I've never used your service. Though I have a feeling I know what went wrong and how this mistake was made, I believe that I deserve to have the charge reversed and have the amount of $9.95 credited back to my account.
Several months ago, when I had gotten my new computer home, I was attempting to find an internet service that I could use to check my e-mail. With Window 98, there are several “starter” services available, and as I examined them I thought Juno might be a service I could use. I hit immediate problems, and for some reason was not allowed to connect to the internet from my computer. Part way through the sign up process (after I'd given my VISA checking account number, but before I was anywhere close to being online), my computer crashed and I was no closer to being online than I had been before. I figured there must have been a problem with my modem, and gave up.
Not too much after this, our landlords connected my computer to the housing structure's server, which uses a T1 connection, making the need for internet service unnecessary. Since I had not gotten anywhere with the Juno account, I assumed I would not be charged.
On March 15th, 2ØØ1, I received my bank statement for my checking account. I was surprised to find that, on February 26th, 2ØØ1 my account was charged $9.95 by “Juno Online Service”. Considering I had never gotten my account to even work, nor connect to the internet, nor was I able to even do anything with it at all, the charge seems ridiculous at best.
Today (March 24th, 2ØØ1) I attempted to call the Customer Service line, and talked to a representative. Though he was able to stop any future charges to my account from being accrued (my Cancellation #: 59Ø7411), he said he was unable to reverse the charge that was made on Feb. 26th (even though I never got the service I was charged for!). He told me that, if I sent an e-mail to this address (president@juno.com) that my problem would be addressed and some sort of justice would be done.
On the phone, the representative told me that my Juno account name was Austin Rich, which concurs with the name I gave when I was trying to set up with Juno. The representative also asked for my phone number which is: 5Ø3-528-29Ø2 (I assume this is another method Juno uses to distinguish between accounts). All I ask is that you investigate into anyone using that account. I'm sure you'll find that the account was never used, and therefore it is unfair that I be charged the $9.95 for a service that I never used (and never could use to begin with had I wanted to because of the failure in setting up the account in the first place).
Please contact me at this e-mail address (austin@rackmØunt.org) or at home (5Ø3-528-29Ø2) so we can straighten out this mess. I'm sure this is merely a matter on talking to the right people, and hopefully this is the right way of doing it.
Thank you.
--Austin Rich
** No reply came from president@juno.com
** On 4/11/Ø1 I sent another e-mail to president@juno.com and webmaster@juno.com, explaining my situation again:
From: Austin Rich (austin@rackmØunt.org)
To:
webmaster@juno.com,
president@juno.com
Subject:
My (Hopefully Defunct) Juno Account...
Date: Wed, 11
Apr 2ØØ1 12:19:48 -Ø7ØØ
Organization:
A.C.R.O.N.Y.M., Inc.
As I seem to be having no luck with contacting president@juno.com (or s/he does not seem to want to contact me BACK), I decided to try a different approach. After cruising the www.juno.com web site, this seemed to be the most likely address to write to. For convenience's sake, I will also be sending a copy of this to president@juno.com, in another attempt to see if this issue can be addressed.
My name is Austin Rich, and recently I ran into a problem with my VISA account. I've attached (below) the last e-mail I sent to president@juno.com, which summarizes that problem rather well (and in detail). To summarize the summary, I was charged $9.95 for a Juno account that I was unable to use, and would like to have that amount credited back to my account. Simple enough, and it would seem that president@juno.com could at least write me back with a, “Yes,” or, “No,” and a short answer as to why. But s/he hasn't, and that is slowly becoming my new frustration.
Hopefully you (webmaster@juno.com) can shed some light on any aspect of this problem (i.e. how I can get my money back, who I should be sending the e-mails too, why president@juno.com hasn't written me back, etc). I would greatly appreciate a response of some kind. I think I've been more than fair and extremely patient in this situation, so in return all I ask is some sort of two-way conversation here so I don't feel like I'm “Screaming At A Wall.”
Thank you.
--Austin Rich
(Attached here was the first message, already posted above.)
** Again, no reply came from either president@juno.com or webmaster@juno.com
** Angry, on 5/1Ø/Ø1 I called Juno's Customer Service line in an attempt to talk to someone in person about the problem. This took 3Ø minutes to accomplish due to their complex voice menus (and the fact that they really don't want to talk to you).
** After talking to the Customer Service Representative, I was informed that there was no one in his office that handled those problems. According to company policy, the only way to address the problem of being charged for service that was never received was via e-mail, sent to president@juno.com
** Furthermore, the Representative informed me that in the “Terms of Agreement” there is a small clause that lists a phone number that you are required to call in the event Juno does not properly install and you don't want to go through with service. However, since the program did not properly install, the information was no longer on my computer and therefore the number was not accessible (and even if I had, the “Terms of Agreement” lists thousands of pieces of information you must read through before you can sign onto Juno, which has the effect of softening your brain anyway and destroying all hope of being able to remember something as specific as a phone number that you must call in a worst-case scenario situation when the thing that isn't supposed to go wrong goes wrong). The Representative informed me that I should have tried to install again in an attempt to get the number. He also suggested I should have called Directory Assistance to get the correct number failing that.
** No longer angry but now completely enraged, I fired a scathing e-mail off to president@juno.com yet again:
From: Austin Rich (austin@rackmØunt.org)
To:
president@juno.com
Subject:
My Juno Account
Date: Thu, 1Ø May 2ØØ1
13:23:36 -Ø7ØØ
Organization:
A.C.R.O.N.Y.M., Inc.
Greetings.
This is my third attempt at communication via e-mail, after my second phone call to your “Customer Service Line”. Frankly, I suggest that you stop calling it that, though, as I received no service of any kind, and rather than feeling anything like a customer I felt more like a small woodland animal that was being poked and prodded on the suspicion it might have rabies or some similar disease. “Line” seemed to be the only thing that was remotely true, since I seemed to be getting a long one from your representative.
But I digress.
I will continue to send this message once a day, or as needed, until I can figure out why I have not gotten any response from this e-mail address the last two times I have tried to write. At this point, I have progressed beyond the point of being annoyed and have entered the realm of becoming angry. Never have I had to spend a full hour on the phone with these “Customer Service Lines” only to find out that no one on the end of any of them wanted to help me. Furthermore, I find it very unfair and rude that, after navigating the incomprehensible Juno Menus during that call, after finding a selection that seemed as if it might get me to a real person that might address my concerns, I instead get a recording telling me to send an e-mail to this address. (An address, I might add, that has ignored my last two messages completely).
I am upset. I want my money back. This is, essentially, where I am at with this situation.
Attached are two bodies of text from my last two messages. They describe, in full, my situation with my alleged “Juno” account, and why I am so upset. I suggest that you read these messages and get back to me as soon as possible. I am very annoyed that I have reached this state after what started out to be a very basic attempt to right a situation you wronged. At this point, you have already lost my service and that of many others (whom I have told to stop). You have painted yourselves as a company who does not listen to it's customers, nor do you wish to allow them to have a way to try and get your attention. Companies in this kind of position learn very fast that image is everything, and right now yours is reflecting back in a rusty piece of metal in a condemned building in a de-militarized zone off in a third world nation. I suggest that you do your best to try and polish it up, as those kinds of places tend to get blown up by local ethnic cleansing skirmishes, to stretch the metaphor even farther. (And for God's sake, don't take that as a threat. It's a metaphor. It's a joke to try and ease myself in a situation a duress. Okay?)
I expect contact from you very soon. Thank you.
--Austin Rich
(Attached here was the first & second messages, already posted above.)
** This message, again, went unanswered, even after re-mailing it several times over the course of a month.
** I finally gave up, and wrote a less-detailed version of the above story for my website and chalked this one up to a decent enough, but failed attempt, at affecting some sort of change. I thought I'd done everything I could, and at that point didn't know what else to do or where to turn.
** Then, on June 28th, I received this e-mail:
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2ØØ1 Ø1:19:11
-Ø6ØØ
From: Scott B
(justscott2@yahoo.com)
To:
Austin Rich (austin@rackmØunt.org)
Subject:
Suggestion
Greetings...
I found your page via search engine after reading a column on Juno's rather ominous service agreement by Brock Meeks on MSNBC.com. Though I am an occasional user of Juno's free service (their software currently resides on a non-functioning laptop), I have encountered problems similar to yours with other ISPs.
Your page doesn't say whether you used a credit or debit card, but here's something to try, if you haven't already. Contact the customer service department of your card issuer and challenge that $9.95 charge (according to the terms of their billing dispute process) and explain (briefly, at first) why in your letter. Depending on the type of card you have, a couple of things might happen at first. They might try to say that the time limit for billing disputes has passed (typically they want you to dispute stuff within 6Ø days), but you can turn around and say that you wanted to make a good faith effort to have them solve the problem, and after several repeated attempts, have received either no or an unsatisfactory response. If you used a credit card, and you have paid off your balance at any time since then, they might also try to tell you that you have lost your rights. Again, you can reiterate that you have tried to work out the problem with them to no avail and would they please intervene for you in the interest of maintaining you as a valued customer (hint, hint). If you used a debit card, you probably have more recourse as far as your bank is concerned because debit cards are ripe for fraudulent charges and many financial institutions are taking a dim view of companies that rip off their customers that use debit cards (esp. since banks are trying to get customers to use debit cards more, since they cost less to process than paper checks).
A lot of work to go through for $1Ø? Probably, but if you are as pissed off about it as you seem to indicate, it's worth a shot. People can send all the nasty e-mail they want to president@juno.com, but e-mail is easy to bozo filter (just ask bill@microsoft.com) and just plain delete. If they get hit in the shorts with enough payment card chargebacks, then they (or at least their credit card processing company) will listen. Good luck, and please post any updates to your story on the page so we can read about it!
Scott B.
Small(er) town, WY
** It had never occured to me to even approach my bank about this! All this time I had been focusing on the fact they had charged me for this money, and that I needed to get it back, when I didn't even try to talk to the one group of people that were, essentially, the middlemen in the whole situation: my bank!
** Later that day I sent a reply back to Scott:
From: Austin Rich (austin@rackmØunt.org)
To:
Scott B (justscott2@yahoo.com)
Subject:
Thanks for the Suggestion...
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2ØØ1
17:14:29 -Ø7ØØ
Organization:
A.C.R.O.N.Y.M., Inc.
Greetings, Scott...
> I found your page via search engine after reading a
column
on Juno's rather ominous service
> agreement by Brock
Meeks on MSNBC.com.
Curious. I read the article this morning after I got your e-mail. I had no idea how horrible Juno really was. Jesus! It strengthens my own desire to continue caring about the entire matter. Also, I had no idea that my page was out on search engines yet. Weird.
> Though I am an occasional user of Juno's free
service (their software currently resides on a
>
non-functioning laptop), I have encountered problems similar to
yours with other ISPs.
It seems to be a problem that comes with internet service, period. Fortunately my landlord offers free service with our rent, which is a lot better anyway because they use a T1 and route connections out to each unit. My “free” service actually ends up being much better than any pay service I've ever used. Plus, a friend of mine has his own server and offers free e-mail to his friends (www.rackmØunt.org) so since then, I've had no complaints concerning the internet, period.
> Your page doesn't say whether you used a credit or
debit card, but here's something to try,
> if you
haven't already. <suggestion snipped>
I had never thought of that! The entire time I was dealing with Juno, I never considered that my bank (the “middle man” throughout the whole problem) might be helpful. It was a debit card, so tomorrow after work I'll meander down to my bank and see what I can do. It has been over 6Ø days, and they do specify that you need to respond to such problems within that time, but as you mentioned, they may make exceptions for valued customers. Since my bank makes a fair amount of money off of me in service charges, it shouldn't be too hard to convince them how “valued” I am.
> A lot of work to go through for $1Ø?
Probably, but if you are as pissed off about it as you
>
seem to indicate, it's worth a shot.
Definitely, if for nothing else to let people who read my page hear how the story ends.
> People can send all the nasty e-mail they want to
president@juno.com, but
e-mail is easy to
> bozo filter (just ask
bill@microsoft.com) and
just plain delete. If they get hit in the shorts
>
with enough payment card chargebacks, then they (or at least
their credit card processing
> company) will listen. Good
luck, and please post any updates to your story on the page so
we
> can read about it!
Definitely. Like I mentioned before, it had never occurred to me to ask my bank for help when in reality, they should have been one of the first people I turned to. Oh well. Live and learn, I guess.
I do find it curious, the whole “bozo filter” idea. Especially since the two people I talked to on the customer service line said that I was guaranteed a response from president@juno.com. The entire “automated” nature of Juno really scares me, because they've essentially set up a company where the only thing people you talk to can do is help set up your account, or arrange for you to make payments. Anything else is all run through the website. It's as if they really believe that the only thing people are good for is setting up accounts and spending money on them. Everything else is so trivial that it can easily be handled by e-mail that will be ignored of “fill-in forms” on the website. Sigh. It makes me angry enough to start a website about it! (Irony noted.)
Anyway, I appreciate your writing. Hopefully my bank will be as angry as I am at service providers to ignore the 6Ø Day deadline. I'll keep you posted. If you don't hear from me, keep checking the website for updates. If anything on the site changes, I mention it in the “news” section.
Later.
--Austin Rich
** The next day I went to my bank and talked with their manager, who then gave me his card and told me to e-mail him the details of what had happened so he could attempt to solve the problem from his end:
From: Austin Rich (austin@rackmØunt.org)
To:
rickys@umpquabank.com
Subject:
My Account Problem
Date: Sat, 3Ø Jun 2ØØ1
16:27:49 -Ø7ØØ
Organization:
A.C.R.O.N.Y.M., Inc.
Greetings.
My name is Austin Rich. I came in on Friday with the question about a problem with a charge I received to my account. You (Richard Silvas) gave me your card and told me to e-mail you with the information concerning the charge. I realize that, at this point, it being far beyond the 3Ø Day Deadline set by your own paperwork (on the back of my account transaction notices), but I figured it might be good to see if there's anything I can do anyway. As I told you yesterday, anymore the $9.95 is not the issue; it's the moral victory I'm concerned with.
Here's a quick rundown of what has happened:
<Brief Summary Snipped>
** This message has, as of today, remained unanswered.
It never occurred to me throughout this entire process that the middle man in this situation (my bank), might be able to do something about all of this. My attitude had been, “Well, Juno made a mistake, it's time for me to try and get them to fix it.” If a friend hadn't suggested I come to you, I might never have even done so. I'm not entirely sure what, if anything, you or I can do at this point, but if there is some sort of way we can approach this situation to get to some sort of end result, even if I don't get my money back, then at least it'll have been a learning experience. Rarely in cases like this have big companies like Juno been very sympathetic to situations like this, so I don't really expect them to be receptive to the idea of reversing my charge. Still, it would be nice to feel like I'd done everything I could before I throw in the towel.
Thank you in advance. I look forward to hearing back from you. If you have any further questions about what has happened (I've been tracking this whole thing since the beginning), feel free to contact me. Thank you.
--Austin Rich.
** After sending this message I continued to stop in at my bank on a regular basis, asking if there had been any updates. However, Richard was apparently hitting the same brick wall I had been. There was little his could do except contact Juno (as I had done), and since they were not answering his e-mail, then there was little hope of resolving the entire situation. I let this sit on the back burner for a while, hoping Richard would know what to do from here on out.
I was (eventually) contacted by Richard, who told me that there was nothing I could do about it at this point. The charge has long since gone past the date where the bank to reverse it out of good faith, and Juno made it clear through inaction that they were not even willing to give the matter any thought, let alone try to do what was "right".
There is little else I (or anyone) could have done in a situation like this. Though it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the people at Juno are rotten bastards, the chain of events still seems ridiculous at best. Odds are, this isn't the first time it's happened and I'm sure Juno is the kind of company who has a “bozo filter” on e-mail trying to get their money back.
The main problem with this kind of company is that they have set themselves up to be so automated that people like me fall though the cracks. This is good for them, because for every sucker like me who tires to install Juno and fails they get another $1Ø in their bank account, plus when a real customer needs to be dealt with the entire system is automated to be handled via e-mail. More work for machines = less work for employees, so you can downsize as much as you like and make money while you do it. It's a corporate philosophy that's catching on quite a bit these days, and unless something happens soon, we could end up living in a country where everything is so automated you can't even file a complaint anymore. Then again, I guess that's their point...
Since I wrote this article originally, I have received a message from someone offering to involve me in a class action lawsuit against Juno. I have to say that I'm not the kind of person this lawsuit really needs (after all, I lost $10 and my case is poorly documented via e-mail at best), but I was really glad to hear that there were people working toward this cause. A lot of people I've mentioned this to have conveyed to me that I was wasting my time, and that there is nothing that can be done about companies like Juno. The general consensus seems to be that this is the new way of things, and that it's clear that we will spend the rest of our lives being screwed by companies like this until the end of time. I, personally, know that is not the case: I will never use or endorse Juno as long as I live, and I will try to convince as many people as possible to do the same. This may be the equivalent of an ant trying to convince his buddies to try and take down a Buick on their next hunting expedition, but can you imagine what would happen if enough ants managed to cover the entire windshield in one fail swoop?
In the long run, I learned a lesson about internet service (you shouldn't pay for it in the first place!), but to help spread the word, I ask that you pass around this information to anyone you might know who may be thinking about signing up for Juno service (or any big company offering service when, 9 times out of 1Ø, you can probably get free service if you nose around a bit). If you're feeling really brave, why not send some e-mail to Juno as well in an attempt to figure out why they do this kind of stuff. The only real way to affect change is to make sure a lot of people are behind it, and I for one am willing to send off another angry e-mail once a month in an attempt to make this company change their policies. If a whole bunch of us do it, we might actually get somewhere.
Send all Correspondence of any kind to austin@rackmØunt.org.